Transcript: Cora Luchetti (1900-2000)

Preface

The following oral history transcript is the result of a tape-recorded interview with Cora Luchetti on June 5, 1996. The interview was conducted by Judith Robinson, an author, historian and member of the Telegraph Hill Dwellers, a community organization. The interview took place at Cora’s home in Novato, California. This interview is part of the Italian-Americans of North Beach series of interviews that were conducted in 1996 by Robinson with funding from U.C. Berkeley’s Bancroft Library. The interview was transcribed and edited by Katherine Petrin and John Doxey in 2022. Accompanying photos were provided by Cora’s daughter Beverly Desmond.

Format: Originally recorded on two audio cassette tapes. Duration is 1 hour, 25 minutes.

Attribution: This interview is property of the Telegraph Hill Dwellers. Quotes, reproductions and excerpts must be cited as follows: Oral history interview with Cora Luchetti, June 5, 1996. Telegraph Hill Dwellers Oral History Project.

Summary: Cora Luchetti was born in San Francisco in 1900 to parents who emigrated to the United States from Tuscany. Her given name was Clorinda Rosa Luchetti, a name from an opera and poem her father favored. Cora grew up in the Western Addition neighborhood, where her father ran a fruit store. Her father was killed by falling masonry in the old produce district during the 1906 earthquake, a tragedy Cora recalled vividly for the rest of her life. After the earthquake, Cora’s family relocated temporarily to the Presidio, and her mother later supported the family by working as a housekeeper and caregiver. Cora had three brothers, one of whom (Babe Pinelli) became a Major League Baseball player and umpire. Her family name was changed from Paolinelli to Pinelli because “Pinelli” was shorter and could fit on the back of a baseball jersey. Cora attended Commerce High School (now closed) and worked as a bookkeeper at various Financial District firms before marrying Arthur Luchetti, a fellow San Franciscan who ran a grocery store on Arguello Boulevard. In her younger years, Cora came to North Beach frequently to visit family members and meet friends for dinner and dancing at Fior d’Italia. Cora was active in many civic and religious organizations, and she enjoyed the annual gathering of 1906 earthquake survivors at Lotta’s Fountain. She had two daughters (Beverly and Barbara) and nine grandchildren, and moved to Marin County as an older woman. She died in 2000 at the age of 100. A San Francisco Chronicle obituary is available online at www.sfgate.com/news/article/LUCHETTI-Cora-Pinelli-2691092.php

Cora was 95 years old when she was interviewed by Judith Robinson. In this interview, Cora speaks of her father’s fruit store in the Western Addition, her father’s death in the 1906 earthquake and how her father’s body was delivered to his family on his horse-drawn cart on the day of the earthquake; her brother Babe Pinelli who had a long career as a Major League baseball player and umpire, and how the family’s name was changed from Paolinelli to Pinelli; her parents’ origins in Tuscany and their marriage at Sts. Peter and Paul Church after emigrating to San Francisco; how she met her husband Arthur Luchetti at Fior d’Italia, Arthur’s ownership of Majestic Market on Arguello Boulevard, and their marriage at Star of the Sea Church; her birth in a white cottage on Bush Street; her vivid memories of camping with her family in the Presidio after the 1906 earthquake and cooking on the sidewalk outside her home for weeks after the earthquake; traveling on streetcars between North Beach and the Western Addition as a young child; her family’s move to an ethnically diverse alley after her father’s death, when money was tight; her mother’s job caring for a disabled child for which she was paid just 25 cents an hour; her older brothers leaving school to get jobs to help support the family; learning English at school; her work as a cashier/bookkeeper in the Financial District as a young woman; evenings of dancing at Fior d’Italia with friends from work; moving to 39th Avenue with Arthur after their marriage; the birth of her twin daughters in 1933; her volunteer work in her later years, making bags, pillows and shawls for needy seniors; swimming with friends at Sutro Baths and Lurline Baths as a young woman, and taking the streetcar to Sutro Baths; her many travels to Italy; the long line of arches over Fillmore Street intersections, which were lit at night; her father playing bocce ball with fellow Italians in the Anza Vista neighborhood; the adorable outfit she wore on Palm Sunday of 1906 which delighted her father, just days before the earthquake; her participation in the annual 1906 Earthquake and Fire ceremonies at Lotta’s Fountain.

Judith Robinson and Cora’s granddaughter Joanne Desmond have reviewed the transcript and corrections and emendations have been made. The reader should keep in mind that he or she is reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose.

Interview

JUDITH: [00:00:02] This should be called Cora Luchetti, interviewed by Judith Robinson on June 5th, 1996, at her home in Marin County for the Italian Oral History Project.

CORA: …we used to go out there…

JUDITH: Had a food store?

CORA: Fruit.

JUDITH: Fruit?

CORA: [unintelligible words here]… but not Filbert. DuPont, which now is…

JUDITH: Grant.

CORA: …Grant Avenue.

JUDITH: Yes.

CORA: DuPont and Filbert.

JUDITH: Oh, I know exactly. Right up the street from Washington Square and the church.

CORA: [00:00:32] That's right. And the church. That's right. My mother used to let my brother and I go down there and bring home the vegetables. We used to take the little old Union streetcar.

JUDITH: That went up and down the hill?

CORA: That's right. And then had to get off at Union and Fillmore and go up the hill. Change to a 22. But we got home. Two little kids. I can't believe my mother let us do that. But she didn’t realize what we had to go through.

JUDITH: How old would you have been then?

CORA: Eight or nine.

JUDITH: Uh-huh. Was that coming home from school?

CORA: [00:01:07] No. I was home from school. See, my father was killed in the earthquake. And my mother had … my father's brother had the fruit store. And we also had a fruit store on Fillmore and Pine.

JUDITH: Now … so this was your father's food store at Grant and … I mean DuPont …Your uncle?

CORA: My uncle. But he was the same name, Paolinelli.

JUDITH: How do you spell that.

CORA: Big, long one. P-A-O-L…

JUDITH: P-A-O-L…?

CORA: I-N.

JUDITH: I-N.

CORA: E-double L-I.

JUDITH: Paolinelli.

CORA: [00:01:51] And later on in years my brother got to be a baseball player. And he says “I can't go by that big name.” So we changed it to Pinelli. So we went by Pinelli after I got to be about 18.

JUDITH: Your brother became a pretty good baseball player?

CORA: Yes, he did. Very well known. Babe Pinelli. [Transcriber’s note: Per Wikipedia, Ralph Arthur "Babe" Pinelli, born Rinaldo Angelo Paolinelli, was an infielder for the Chicago White Sox, Detroit Tigers and Cincinnati Reds from 1918-1927. After that he became a highly regarded National League umpire from 1935 to 1956. He was born in San Francisco in 1895 and died in 1984.]

JUDITH: Oh, really?

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: Where did he play? Did he play with…?

CORA: He played for the Seals.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: Then he went to Cincinnati Reds.

JUDITH: Really?

CORA: For a long time. Then he got to be a famous umpire.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: Yeah, that's my brother.

JUDITH: I'll be darned.

CORA: A lot of folks in the park here, elder folks, I happened to mention baseball one day, and I said “Babe Pinelli was my brother.” “Oh, my god. Was that your brother?” The old folks remembered it. [Transcriber’s note: Cora is referring to the trailer park in Novato where she lived at the time of this interview.]

JUDITH: Ah-ha! Well, let me ask you just a couple of questions about your parents. Were they immigrants themselves?

CORA: Oh, yeah. Sure.

JUDITH: OK. And what was your father's first name?

CORA: Rafaello.

JUDITH: Rafaello. R-A-F-F…?

CORA: R-A-F-A-E-L-L-O. Rafaello. [Transcriber’s note: An alternate spelling of this name appears later in this transcription.]

JUDITH: Did he have a middle initial or name or ...? Probably had some…

CORA: I don't even know that.

JUDITH: …Christian, baptism names. And what did he do, and how did he come to America?

CORA: That I don't know … but all his brothers, two or three of the brothers, they all came to America but one. One stayed in Italy. And I heard he's still there. I tried to locate him because I went to Italy so many times. And … but I never could find out where he lived. But he stayed there. Agosto.

JUDITH: And do you know what town or city your father came from?

CORA: [00:03:47] Yes. He came from Ponte … wait a minute … P-O-N-T-E … Oh, what the hell’s that name? … Ponte a Moriano. [Transcriber’s note: The town of Ponte a Moriano is named for the bridge that crosses the Serchio River. Ponte a Moriano is about six miles from Lucca.]

JUDITH: Do you know where that is in Italy?

CORA: That's about eight miles away from Lucca.

JUDITH: Oh, from Lucca. So he was a Lucchese?

CORA: Oh, yeah. Toscani.

JUDITH: Mm-hmm. You both took your … your father was Toscani?

CORA: Yeah. And my mother, too.

JUDITH: Ah-ha.

CORA: She came from a little town right near where my father came from.

JUDITH: Where was that?

CORA: She came from Cune. Cune is the town way up in the mountains. Down at the bottom is … the town. I'm trying to think of the name of it … let me see, what's the name of that town? It's a nice little town. I was there. But I haven't been back to Italy for so long. [Transcriber’s note: The village of Cune belongs to the municipality of Borgo a Mozzano in the province of Lucca.]

JUDITH: What was your mother's name?

CORA: Silvestri.

JUDITH: Her maiden name was Silvestri? [Transcriber’s note: Per Cora’s granddaughter Joanne Desmond, it is likely that Cora’s mother is related to the Silvestri family that hailed from Lucca and founded a statuary business in San Francisco in 1900. Members of this family later returned to the United States and founded A. Silvestri Co., a San Francisco business that reproduces and manufactures a variety of garden ornaments in pre-cast concrete, in the 1950s.]

CORA: Yes, uh-huh.

JUDITH: And what was her first name? Christian name.

CORA: Ermida. E-R-M-I-D-A.

JUDITH: Ermida.

CORA: Ermida.

JUDITH: Uh-huh. S-I-L-V-E-S-T-R-I?

CORA: That’s right. Silvestri.

JUDITH: So did they meet in Italy or marry here or...?

CORA: [00:05:22] Yeah, they met in Italy. And they were married at the church over in North Beach.

JUDITH: Peter and Paul?

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: Oh.

CORA: Yeah. A lot of Italians went there to be married.

JUDITH: Yeah.

CORA: Oh, yeah.

JUDITH: And do you know when they were born? Do you know how … what their … or how old they were when they died, and what year they died?

CORA: I can get all that for you, but I don't have it right in my mind.

JUDITH: Yeah.

CORA: I have a son-in-law that is one of those people that’s got the history of the whole family. [Transcriber’s note: Cora is referring here to her son-in-law Paul Bosque, who was married to Cora’s daughter Barbara.]

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: When they came and when they died.

JUDITH: Well, now … so your name was Paolinelli?

CORA: Si.

JUDITH: And then you married a Mr. Luchetti?

CORA: Luchetti.

JUDITH: And what was his full name?

CORA: Arthur. Arturo.

JUDITH: Arturo. But you were first generation, both you and your husband?

CORA: Yes.

JUDITH: What did your husband do if…?

CORA: Food stall, as usual.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: Are you familiar with the city?

JUDITH: Yes, very much. I've lived there for many years.

CORA: On Arguello. First Avenue.

JUDITH: Oh, really?

CORA: Yeah. Up near the park. Majestic Market.

JUDITH: Ah-ha.

CORA: He was there for years. 50 years.

JUDITH: Your father?

CORA: My husband.

JUDITH: Your husband, I mean.

CORA: Yes.

JUDITH: At Arguello near the Golden Gate Park?

CORA: Yes, right near McAllister.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: McAllister, then Fulton. There’s your park.

JUDITH: Sure.

CORA: [00:06:55] You know, I meet people now that lived up on Second or Third Avenue. And they say “Oh, we used to shop at your father's store all the time.” [Transcriber’s note: Cora means to say “your husband’s store” here, rather than father’s store.]

JUDITH: Sure.

CORA: People in the park here even. [Transcriber’s note: Cora appears to be referring here to the Novato trailer park where she lived at the time of this interview.]

JUDITH: Isn't that interesting.

CORA: Isn't that interesting? Yeah.

JUDITH: Yeah. Small. It's a smallish world, isn’t it?

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: Well, now, do you mind giving us your date of birth?

CORA: June 11, 1900.

JUDITH: Almost your birthday.

CORA: I'll be 96 next week.

JUDITH: I'll be darned. Good for you.

CORA: Born in 1900.

JUDITH: In San Francisco?

CORA: Yes, on Bush Street.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: In a little white cottage, still there. We drove by it the other day and it's still there. And my son says “Get over there, stand on the stairs.” So I did. I have a snapshot of it. [Transcriber’s note: Cora means to say “son-in-law” here, referring to Paul Bosque, rather than “son.” Cora did not have a son.]

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: That's Western Addition. Fillmore Street and Bush.

JUDITH: Near Fillmore was where your cottage was?

CORA: Yeah, that's where we had our fruit store, at Pine. But Bush Street and Steiner was the big St. Dominic's Church.

JUDITH: Ah-ha.

CORA: And I can remember the morning of the earthquake. My mother said to us kids “I don't know why your father got up so early, but he said he had a lot of shopping to do down at the fruit market.” So off he went, and we never did see him after that. He was killed down there.

JUDITH: Oh, no.

CORA: And we were only…

JUDITH: You were only six…

CORA: [00:08:21] Six. And we were sitting out in front of the store, there was a little store next to my father's fruit store, and it was a couple of cement steps to get to it. We were sitting in those steps and my mother kept saying to the kids “I don't know why your father got up so early.” And he got up real early that morning. And all of a sudden here comes his wagon, driven by another man.

JUDITH: Oh.

CORA: Oh, my mother just passed out. She knew something had happened.

JUDITH: Well, do you remember the effects of feeling the earthquake yourself? Do you remember the sensations at all?

CORA: No. I was only six.

JUDITH: Yeah.

CORA: All I remember is, you know, my mother got us kids … we wanted to get out of the house. We lived above the store. So we tried to get out through the back door, but the chimney was broken and all the bricks … we couldn't open the door. So we came back in the house and went down the front stairs inside the stairway and over the stairs that … in those days people had a lot of light wells. And that was broken and all the glass was on the stairs. But we went down anyway.

JUDITH: You crawled out a window to the light well?

CORA: That’s right.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: And then we went down and sat on that step, waiting for my father.

JUDITH: Oh.

CORA: And the first thing we did was to go into the store, and you should see the sight. All the bottles of olive oil, all the canned goods, all of that was on the floor.

JUDITH: Oh. Now, this was the store at Pine Street?

CORA: Yes. Near Pine, on Fillmore.

JUDITH: Mm-hmm, OK.

CORA: And we lived up over the store.

JUDITH: Ah-ha.

CORA: I must tell you secret. Across the street from us [several unintelligible words here] … and he was a policeman. And somehow he must’ve got ahold of all his Irish friends. They went in my father's store, and they … in the back of the store my father used to sell liquor.

JUDITH: Oh.

CORA: You know, it came in barrels. You go in with your little tin can, you buy port wine, sherry or whatever it was. And he was selling liquor back there. Well, the morning of the earthquake in came the Army, the...

JUDITH: Military?

CORA: We had to get out of the house.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: And they made us walk down Steiner Street. And we had to sleep on that park it's now at Clay and Steiner. And it goes in tiers. Like a lower one here, then a walk, and a low one. And we slept on one of the high ones. And the Army right away threw out blankets to everybody. And we stayed there for the night, watching the city burn. [Transcriber’s note: Cora is referring here to Alta Plaza Park in Pacific Heights.]

JUDITH: Oh, my god. You remember that vividly.

CORA: [00:11:20] Oh, I remember that … And you know, in the morning at 5 o’clock we heard the bugle up on top. They played a little tune, everybody listened. And we had to leave the park, walk down Steiner Street to the Presidio. And by that time, the Army had set up hundreds of tents. And each tent had a bunch of hay … that you could sleep on. So my mother started going down aisle after aisle, looked in each one, and people were already in there. So we couldn't find a place to stay. So my mother kept on walking, like over Chestnut Street over that way. She kept on walking. First thing you know, we were way out where the hospital is now.

JUDITH: Letterman Hospital? [Transcriber’s note: Per Wikipedia, the Letterman Army Hospital, established around 1898 and redesignated as the Letterman Army Medical Center (LAMC) in 1969, was a U.S. Army facility in a northeastern area of the Presidio. It was decommissioned in 1994.]

CORA: [00:12:07] Letterman. Right about that spot.

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: And we found a wagon. So we slept under that.

JUDITH: How many were you in your family then?

CORA: My mother had the four kids.

JUDITH: Four.

CORA: And then we had my father's brother that was blind. And he was hanging on to my mother all the way down, walking down Steiner Street. And then my youngest brother was only four, and he had the measles. So we no sooner got down there somebody reported that my mother had a sick child. And the soldiers came right to us and took my brother. And they made a temporary hospital out of a quonset hut, you know, and it was only about a block from where we were sleeping. So they took my brother, and we didn't see him for about a month. But they took care of him, and he got over his measles and he even got fat ... And when we went down to get him, my mother was so thrilled. They called us up and told us we could come and get him.

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: So…

CORA: …it was really something. Every morning you get in line for your milk, you get in line for your bread, you get in line for everything, line after line after line. That's the way it worked.

JUDITH: It sounds as if the city organized pretty rapidly, though.

CORA: That's right.

JUDITH: Were you all impressed with that…?

CORA: [00:13:38] Oh, yeah, absolutely. See, we were so young, my brother and I. My mother would put us on the streetcar and let us go over to North Beach to buy vegetables from … my father's brother, his store. And … I can still remember standing on the corner of Columbus and Union, where they kind of come together, and we would wait for the Union. Because the Union streetcar had open seats in the front, you know, and we'd sit out there with this great big basket with the straps going around it full of vegetables. Sometimes my uncle used to come over to where we lived and he'd always bring a whole big sack of vegetables … and we just couldn't wait to open it up. Sometimes he’d wrap up the chicken and put it in there.

JUDITH: Just plucked?

CORA: Oh, yeah.

JUDITH: But it was fun to sit on the front of the car with the seats facing forward and go up and down the hill?

CORA: [00:14:43] That's right. And then when we get to Fillmore, we'd have to take that car. Now if you’ll remember Fillmore was quite steep from Broadway down. And it would go up the top of the hill and we'd get off. Had to transfer to the 22 that would go down Fillmore.

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: Then we finally got home. When I think of it now, I can just see my brother and myself standing on the corner waiting for the Union car to come over Columbus. And then when it would get to us, the conductor would get off to help put the basket on. He saw us kids trying to struggle with this basket.

JUDITH: So you here you were six or seven or eight and you’re…

CORA: I was about six, seven.

JUDITH: Yeah, gosh. And how old were your other siblings? They were...

CORA: My brother, the ballplayer, was five years older. And my oldest brother was seven years older than I am.

JUDITH: Ah-ha. What was his name?

CORA: [00:15:41] Wait ‘til you hear the names. I would tell everybody “my father must have read every dime nickel … every...” [chuckles] There was a certain story about Orlando who was fighting for the hand of Clarinda. [chuckles] This is history. And so he named my oldest brother Orlando and the ballplayer Rinaldo.

JUDITH: Oh, I love it. After some romantic figures in novels he'd read?

CORA: That's right.

JUDITH: Orlando and Rolando?

CORA: Orlando. O-R-L-A-N-D-O.

JUDITH: And Rolando?

CORA: Orlando and Rinaldo.

JUDITH: Rinaldo.

CORA: And they were both fighting for Clarinda. [Transcriber’s note: Cora appears to be referring to the epic poems Orlando innamorato by Matteo Maria Boiardo and Orlando furioso by Ludovico Ariosto, in which the Christian paladins Orlando and Rinaldo (who are cousins) vie for the love of pagan princess Angelica. Cora’s given name was Clorinda Rosa, another character from these poems/stories. Her younger brother Fiorivante was also named for a character in these poems/stories.]

JUDITH: [laughter] From a story he’d read?

CORA: And now it ends up Cora.

JUDITH: Yeah. [chuckles] So you were the only daughter?

CORA: That's right. And three boys.

JUDITH: [00:16:40] Wow. Well, did your parents speak English at home or Italian?

CORA: Italian. Oh, my mother didn't understand English at all. She still … when she died, she still had … she couldn't talk very clear.

JUDITH: And, uh, do you remember when she passed away? What year? And about how old she was?

CORA: 86.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: This was about … I think it was 1989. [Transcriber’s note: This date is incorrect. Cora’s mother died in 1955.]

JUDITH: That recently?

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: Wow. And was she a homemaker or…?

CORA: [00:17:25] Yeah. But you see, when my father died, or was killed, she had to go out and work. And she used to go out and clean house for people or help them. Twenty-five cents an hour.

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: And she'd go out and then she'd come home at lunchtime, see that we got our lunch. We all went to schools right near where I live. She'd come home to see that we ate our lunch, and she'd go back out and work for another three or four hours. But that's how she raised us kids.

JUDITH: Good for her.

CORA: Yeah. And how she met my father. My father came from Italy. I have … someplace I have the date and everything. He came from Italy, and he went to work. He went to work for the Foxhall Market, which was a big market on Fillmore near Pacific. And he worked there, and he would deliver the vegetables to this house where my mother got a job taking care of their little 16-year-old daughter. The Postillioni family lived there, and their little daughter was sort of a cripple, and they hired my mother to help stay with her. And so my father delivered the vegetables there, and that's how they met. [Transcriber’s note: internet research found reference to a Foxhall Market located at 2318 Fillmore Street between Clay and Washington streets in 1907.; correct spelling of the name Postillioni is unknown.]

JUDITH: How old would she have been then?

CORA: She was in her early 20s.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

JUDITH: So they met over here?

CORA: Oh, yes. They met right in the city.

JUDITH: Isn't that charming?

CORA: Isn’t that something?

JUDITH: Yeah. But your father then went on to establish his own business as a grocer.

CORA: Oh, yeah. He … for the first time he opened up, we were on the corner of Bush and Fillmore, and they still lived up over the store. And my first two brothers, they were born up in that flat. And then he wanted a larger store, so he moved up the street near Pine, instead of being near Bush. So that was a nice store and we lived upstairs.

JUDITH: [00:19:29] Do you think of yourself having a happy childhood?

CORA: Yes, I do.

JUDITH: Yeah. In spite of the…?

CORA: And next to our flat were Japanese people and they were photographers, they took pictures, people. And they were always getting those kids over there and took pictures of us. They just loved it.

JUDITH: Do you have any of those pictures? Did they give one to you…?

CORA: The other day I was looking at it.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: I was standing on a couch or something. Then I got wind of my brother when he was a little guy, and I was standing near his chair. All taken by those Japanese.

JUDITH: So you are quite an ethnic mix in that area, the Western Addition?

CORA: Yeah, that's right. Lots of Irish people.

JUDITH: Ah-ha.

CORA: Not many Italians. McNamaras and … the house where I was born on Bush Street belonged to Marins. And Marin family had a creamery on Fillmore near California. And their little cottage still there, by the way. [Transcriber’s note: the correct spelling of the name Marin is unknown.]

JUDITH: Where would that...?

CORA: On Bush near Steiner.

JUDITH: The one you lived in?

CORA: I was born in.

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: It’s still there.

JUDITH: You remember the address?

CORA: I think it's 28-something. I have all that down someplace in this house.

JUDITH: Uh-huh. Was there … were there ethnic discriminations amongst families?

CORA: No, not at all.

JUDITH: None of that?

CORA: We didn't have that like. No. Like we wouldn't want a Black man and you wouldn't want this. But here we had Irish on one side, Italians next door. We were the Italians and the Irish. And up the street from us, they were French. Had a big French bakery.

JUDITH: [00:21:26] Ah-ha. And where most of these immigrant families with first generation children like yourselves?

CORA: Oh, yes.

JUDITH: So it was a neighborhood of many first immigrants?

CORA: Yes. And then we moved. When my father died, my mother couldn't afford to stay in that flat. So we moved in an alley which is still there between Bush and Pine and Fillmore and Steiner. Little tiny alley. And talk about your different people. I used to play with Russian kids that lived about four or five doors from me. Across the street there was a little French girl. And then up my side of my alley there were a couple of German girls that I played with. Imagine all those countries represented right there in that alley.

JUDITH: Yeah. And that alley was … where again?

CORA: Between Fillmore and Steiner.

JUDITH: Right.

CORA: And Bush and Pine. And it was called Wilmot. Probably still is.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: Wilmot Street.

JUDITH: Yep. Uh, did any of that change greatly with World War Two against Germany? Did you notice … World War One, rather. In 1915 to…?

CORA: There were these two German girls lived up for me. We were just kids…

JUDITH: Right.

CORA: …we really didn't know what was going on.

JUDITH: [00:22:50] Well, now, did your family carry on even after your dad was gone? Some of your Italian traditions? Did you have a lot of church activities or…?

CORA: Oh, yes.

JUDITH: Was church kind of a center of your social life?

CORA: St. Dominic’s, yes. We all met there. And of course, my mother was very religious. She saw that we went to church on Sundays … And they had a big school, St. Dominic's School. But I went to Emerson School, which was way out on Pine and Scott. [Transcriber’s note: St. Dominic’s Catholic Church is located at the corner of Bush and Steiner streets. The current church, built in the Gothic style, was finished in 1928.; Emerson school, an early education and elementary school, was renamed Dr. William L. Cobb Elementary School in 1947. The school is located at 2725 California Street.]

JUDITH: A public school?

CORA: Yes.

JUDITH: Not a parochial school?

CORA: No.

JUDITH: And … your brothers, did they go to public schools?

CORA: All public schools.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

JUDITH: So that's how you learned English?

CORA: Oh, yes.

JUDITH: You're quite bilingual.

CORA: But I still like my old Italian.

JUDITH: I’ll bet.

CORA: And my daughter, that we were just with today, she's taken Italian at college. Four years. And she speaks beautiful.

JUDITH: Isn't that ironic that she had to go to school to study…?

CORA: To learn. I know.

JUDITH: So you … with your family, your own family spoke English only after you were…? Um, did you go through high school in public schools?

CORA: [00:24:15] Mm-hmm. My daughters went to St. Rose. That was strictly nuns. My two girls. I have twin daughters.

JUDITH: Huh.

CORA: But I went to … Hamilton public school. Hamilton and … Post and … Steiner, Pierce, Scott. Post and Scott. It was a big playground there called Hamilton Playground that ran right on that area. There’s where my brother used to play baseball. He'd come home from school and head down to the park. He would go and somebody spotted him. And that's how he got started in baseball…

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: …through Hamilton Park. [Transcriber’s note: Hamilton Park may have been the predecessor of Hamilton Rec Center, located at 1900 Geary Boulevard. The center includes a swimming pool, tennis courts, playing field and other amenities.]

JUDITH: Uh, did all of you go through high school and any of you go to college?

CORA: No, none of us.

JUDITH: But you always…?

CORA: I just went to high school. I went to Hamilton Grammar. And then when I left there, I went to Commerce High. [Transcriber’s note: Per internet research, Commerce High School originated in 1883 at Powell Street near Clay. A new campus, on Grove Street between Polk and Larkin, opened in 1911. This building was relocated to the corner of Fell and Franklin streets in 1913, and was the largest building every moved in San Francisco. The school closed in 1952 due to dwindling enrollment.; Hamilton Grammar School, located on Geary Boulevard between Scott and Pierce streets, opened sometime before the 1890s.]

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: I graduated from there, and that's where I learned a little French.

JUDITH: Ah-ha. You graduated with a degree in some kind of secretarial skills?

CORA: No, nothing.

JUDITH: OK. Did you…?

CORA: But, you know, I always liked bookkeeping.

JUDITH: Ah-ha.

CORA: And I used to bring the … in those days you would bring home, you would buy not the books, but you would buy a bunch of paper about that thick. And each page had something for you to do. Into this [unintelligible words here] something, to make your entry. And so you had to go to the cash book and make an entry. That's how I learned bookkeeping really.

JUDITH: Ah-ha. And so you actually became a bookkeeper?

CORA: [00:26:13] Yes. And then I worked in the financial district. I was cashier for a long time, right in the front. Handling the money.

JUDITH: For a bank?

CORA: No, for an insurance company.

JUDITH: Ah-ha.

CORA: Yeah. I worked for the Northern Insurance, and I went over to Bankers and Shipper. Every time I moved, I make more money. So I kept on going. [Transcriber’s note: internet research by transcriber found no reference to Northern Insurance or Bankers and Shipper.]

JUDITH: On your own?

CORA: On my own. I met some wonderful people really.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: And I went all through that year. And I just heard the other day one of the boys of that little group that stuck together all the time passed away. I was so surprised to hear that. And I have a picture, there’s five or six of the boys. They always went on hikes. And he's in it … I ought to take it and send it to his sister. She's still alive.

JUDITH: Oh, yeah. People like to get pictures.

CORA: She’d probably like to see him.

JUDITH: Right. Well, how did you meet your husband?

CORA: [00:27:15] That’s a long story. See when I was working in the financial district, five or six of us every Friday night we'd go out for dinner. And we'd go to Fior d’Italia. You know, when it was up at the corner of Columbus and Kearny, whatever, up the hill. We’d go up there. We'd always go for dinner. And one night I was sitting at the table, there were about eight of us. And these two, the waiter, I mean the headwaiter at the door. I used to call him from the office and make reservations. And I was Pinelli, he was Puccetti. [chuckles] And I'd call and say “this is Pinelli.” “Oh, how many tonight?” And I'd say “seven or eight.” He'd have the table all set. So he set one right near the dance floor. And they always had a nice orchestra playing. Oh, yeah, what was it called? It was … you know what it is now? It’s where Finocchio’s is. [Transcriber’s notes: Fior d’Italia, which bills itself as the oldest Italian restaurant in America, opened in 1886. The Fior has operated at six different North Beach locations over the years. After the 1906 earthquake, the restaurant moved to 492 Broadway, the location referenced by Cora in this history. The Fior is currently located at 2237 Mason Street; Per Wikipedia, Finocchio's Club was a former nightclub and bar in operation from 1936 to 1999 at 506 Broadway, above Enrico’s Cafe.]

JUDITH: Oh, really? Is that where the Fior d'Italia was?

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: Oh, I didn't know it was at Finocchio’s.

CORA: Yeah, that's where it was.

JUDITH: And they had an orchestra at the Fior d’Italia?

CORA: It was Tom Gorenovich. Boy, was it good. [Transcriber’s note: the correct spelling of the name Gorenovich is unknown]

JUDITH: How do you spell his name? Tom...

CORA: G-O-R, I think. Tom Gorenovich.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: It was a wonderful orchestra. And so we love to dance. We’d go up there for dinner. So this one night, the man at the door came over to my table and he says “I have two friends here. Do you girls want to dance?” We said “Sure, bring ‘em over.” So they brought ‘em over, the two men. And one was my Arthur.

JUDITH: Oh. So it was just you girls who went to dinner?

CORA: Just the girls.

JUDITH: OK.

CORA: Oh, yeah. And we always went home with one another. No men.

JUDITH: Right.

CORA: And one of my girlfriends that I worked with lived at the Gartland Hotel on Geary and Polk. And we always used to leave and go to her place and stay. And then I’d go home the next day. I was living in the Richmond District. [Transcriber’s note: Per internet research, the Gartland Hotel, which later changed its name to the Hartland Hotel, was built in 1913 on the southwest corner of Larkin and Geary streets. The building was originally owned by a street paving contractor named Patrick Gartland and was designed by the prolific Rousseau and Rousseau.]

JUDITH: Oh, I see.

CORA: And I’d go home. And then Saturday we’d go down to eat since Friday. So this particular night … the man at the door said “Would any of you girls like to dance?” We said “Sure, bring ‘em over.” So they brought over Arthur and his friend George. Well, George walked right over and took Dale Hanley, who was one of my office girls. She was a pretty girl, too. He took her, and they started dancing. And then Arthur waited until the dance was over. And then he come over and asked me to get up. But as they were leaving the table the first time, they began talking Italian. And I said “Better be careful ‘cause I’m Italian. I’ll understand what you’re saying.” And the minute that he knew I was Italian, well, I had to be it. [chuckles] [Transcriber’s note: the correct spelling of Dale Hanley is unknown.]

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: And that's how we met.

JUDITH: The men started Italian?

CORA: At the Fior d’Italia.

JUDITH: That's wonderful. That’s a very nice memory.

CORA: Yeah, it is.

JUDITH: So then you began courting and...?

CORA: That’s right.

JUDITH: When … what year would that have been?

CORA: That would have been about 1921.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: I was about 21 then.

JUDITH: Right.

CORA: I know that when I went to get the job, the second job … first job I had in this insurance company. When I went to get the second job, I wasn't even 21, I was 20. And he said “You're pretty young for me to take you as a treasurer, as a cashier.” I said “Well, give me a chance for six months. Let me … try me out, see how it works out.” And the end of six months, I went in, and I says “Well, are you satisfied?” He says “Oh, take your hat and [break in recording here].” And my brother has a florist on Clement Street. If you know the city…

JUDITH: Yes.

CORA: Clement across the street from the Coliseum Theater. [Transcriber’s note: Located at Clement Street and 9th Avenue, the Coliseum Theatre opened in 1918 and was originally designed in a Greek Revival style by the Reid Brothers. The Coliseum closed in 1989.]

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: He had a big flower shop. And we lived up above the flower shop. And Arthur used to come home from the market with vegetables and stuff, and he'd come up California street from the finance district. And he'd come up and I'd be on the California Street cable car going down to work. So I used to sit out in the front, and he'd come back up the hill and wave at me as he went by. [chuckles]

JUDITH: [00:31:59] Oh, how charming … He'd be coming up from downtown…?

CORA: Loaded with his stuff. And then he’d wave at me and I’d wave at him.

JUDITH: In the morning?

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: Why was he going that way in the morning?

CORA: He was going to First Avenue.

JUDITH: Where he was working. OK.

CORA: That's where the store was.

JUDITH: Oh, how charming.

CORA: Isn’t it a cute story?

JUDITH: That is a wonderful story.

CORA: And I would be sitting out in front.

JUDITH: On California Street?

CORA: Yeah. And he'd see me sitting there, and he’d wave at me as he went by.

JUDITH: So you kind of waited for each other?

CORA: Yes. And sometimes he would stop on Fillmore and California. There was a bakery there. They made the best coffee cake. And every once in a while he’d stop by there and buy a big hunk of coffee cake and he’d come to my house. We lived up over the flower shop. And my mother used to think that was great. He'd come in with a big piece of coffee cake, and we’d have coffee together.

JUDITH: Wow. On the way to work, before you left?

CORA: Yeah. And then I would get my streetcar out in front and transfer it down the hill.

JUDITH: So there was a streetcar that went all the way out California?

CORA: Way out Clement.

JUDITH: Clement? OK.

CORA: Yeah. And there was also one on California.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: The number one went way out.

JUDITH: Uh-huh. Well, we sure could use those today. Well, then it sounds as if he were pretty devoted from the beginning. And you must have married, what, a couple of years later or…?

CORA: Yes. I didn't go with him very long.

JUDITH: Uh-huh. For months … you married within months?

CORA: I think so.

JUDITH: Uh-huh. Where were you married? At St. Dominic's?

CORA: Star of the Sea. Eighth and Clement. Eighth and Geary. Star of the Sea.

JUDITH: Star of the Sea church? [Transcriber’s note: Star of the Sea Church is located at 4420 Geary Boulevard.]

CORA: Mm-hmm.

JUDITH: Yeah.

CORA: Married there.

JUDITH: Did you have a…?

CORA: [00:34:05] We had a big reception at First Avenue and Clement. There was a large [unintelligible word here] and we took both upstairs and down, had a big Italian reception. Invited practically all his customers. [laughter]

JUDITH: Well, did he own his store by that time or was he still working?

CORA: Yes. His father had that store for 50 years…

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: …and everybody knew about the Majestic Market. And I have a lady friend that lives here in the park. She's only a couple of blocks away from here. And she says “You know, I used to live on Third Avenue.” Well, the store was on First Avenue and she lived on Third. She says “I can remember walking down the store and your father … you know, your husband would wait on me. Imagine that after all these years?

JUDITH: That’s wonderful.

CORA: And she remembers going to the store.

JUDITH: Sure.

CORA: And we talk about it all the time.

JUDITH: [00:35:03] Uh-huh. And where did you and your husband settle then to live?

CORA: 39th Avenue … You see, his mother was smart. There were two boys in the family, and his mother made them both buy a couple of little houses on 39th Avenue. Leave it to the Italians for property. They love it.

JUDITH: [laughter] Right.

CORA: So they each had a house on 39th Avenue, and I wanted to live up around St Ignatius because there was a street up there had beautiful new houses on it. Up Anza Vista they called it, that area. Because the store was on First Avenue. It would have been just a couple of blocks to walk down to there. But oh, no. His mother said to him “Why do you want to move here for? Why don't you move into the house that happened to be empty?” So out we went, 39th Avenue. I lived there for 26 years.

JUDITH: [chuckles] Wow. Out in the fog belt there.

CORA: [00:36:12] Oh, was it. And sometimes I’d call in the morning and talk to his mother on the phone, say “How’s the weather there?” She says “Oh, the sun is shining and the birds are singing.” And here I was, I couldn't even find my way in from the fog. [laughter]

JUDITH: Well, you were an awfully good sport it sounds like.

CORA: Oh, I was so mad when I think of me staying out there all those years.

JUDITH: Oh, gosh.

CORA: And then the twins were born, and I sent them to school out there.

JUDITH: Mm-hmm. When were the twins born?

CORA: When?

JUDITH: When, uh-huh.

CORA: 1931. [Transcriber’s note: Cora’s twin daughters, Beverly and Barbara, were actually born in 1933]

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: They’re 60 years old now… [Transcriber’s note: phone rings here and recording is interrupted. When the recording resumes, Cora is showing an award she received from Sonoma State Hospital to Judith, who reads the award plaque.]

JUDITH: Right. “This one is presented to Cora Luchetti in recognition and appreciation of your continuing services. The people of Sonoma State Hospital…”

CORA: Oh, boy...

JUDITH: “…Developmental Center, October 1984.”

CORA: There you go. Now there’s the Bishop Hurley. [Transcriber’s note: Cora is apparently showing a photo to Judith here]

JUDITH: Oh, for heaven's sakes.

CORA: And there I am accepting it.

JUDITH: And this is an award for volunteer service to our diocesan center, young at heart, 1974 to ‘77 from … Mark J. Hurley, Bishop of Santa Rosa.

CORA: There you go.

JUDITH: With a photograph of you receiving this plaque.

CORA: Now, this was given to me by the Whistlestop. [Transcriber’s note: Whistlestop changed its name to Vivalon in 2020. For more than 65 years, the agency has served as a resource hub for older adults and people with disabilities in Marin County.]

JUDITH: Oh, my! A beautiful silver...

CORA: Now, if you can read that.

JUDITH: Yes. Whistlestop, Cora Luchetti, 13 years dedicated volunteer service. For heaven's sake!

CORA: This is my award collection... [chuckles]

JUDITH: Well, it's a very impressive award.

CORA: Stay there, stay there. I want you to see … how I keep track of how many … Come in here, Judy.

JUDITH: Alright.

[Transcriber’s note: from 38:52 to 41:09, Cora and Judith are in another room discussing the items that Cora makes and donates to Whistlestop. Cora claimed to have produced more than 97,000 items as of 1995, such as stuffed pillows and bags that attach to the front of walkers and the backs of wheelchairs.]

JUDITH: Well, that is very impressive.

CORA: Isn’t that something?

JUDITH: You should be proud of that.

CORA: That I am. Especially when you think of the total.

JUDITH: Uh-huh. Well, you certainly have kept busy.

CORA: Now, you see I’m ready to sit here all afternoon.

JUDITH: Fine. That's fine.

CORA: [unintelligible words here regarding cutting material] See, this has all got to be cut.

JUDITH: And that's for stuffiing?

CORA: We stuff pillows like that over there. And then my daughter keeps ‘em in her garage. And then she calls up Sonoma State Hospital and they come down and pick them up.

JUDITH: Well, that's marvelous. Well, tell me again how many grandchildren you have and great grandchildren?

CORA: I have nine grand[children]. One daughter has six, the other has three.

JUDITH: Ah-ha.

CORA: And I have three and two. I have five great[grandchildren].

JUDITH: And five great grandchildren?

CORA: Mm-hmm.

JUDITH: Do you have any great-great grandchildren yet?

CORA: Not yet. No, they’re too young.

JUDITH: Mm-hmm.

CORA: This is all junk that goes in the garbage.

JUDITH: Well, you don't waste anything.

CORA: Nothing.

JUDITH: No.

CORA: They give me the old socks like this...

JUDITH: Sure.

CORA: …and I get my scissors and I work on it.

JUDITH: Did you learn some of that from your mother? Did you learn sewing from your mother or…?

CORA: She did used to make my dresses when I was little.

JUDITH: Right.

CORA: I remember that. ‘Cause she always was at the sewing machine.

JUDITH: [00:41:36] Uh-huh. And what about other things that she and your father brought from Italy … do you remember … did you have special events at Christmas and Easter? Special cakes, special celebrations? Do you remember any of those kinds of things?

CORA: Only that now … we always get together on those holidays.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: My niece always takes Easter in [unintelligible words here]. She takes Thanksgiving … and the one in the city takes Christmas. [Transcriber’s note: Cora is referring to her daughter Beverly Desmond when she says “the one in the city.”]

JUDITH: Right. So you still carry on that tradition of a large Italian family gathering?

CORA: Oh, yeah. We all get together.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: [00:42:17] And, uh, did your mother manage all right after losing your father? Did she ever remarry?

CORA: No. But she went on to work for 25 cents an hour.

JUDITH: Gosh.

CORA: In the Marin family, where I used to live in the house they owned, I was born in that house. They had a creamery on Fillmore near California. And we kids used to walk home from Emerson School, which was out on Scott and Pine. We'd walk home and walk up to watch them. We'd stand outside the window and watch the … butter. They were making the butter. And then they’d put it in squares. And they sold butter and eggs.

JUDITH: Right.

CORA: And that Marin family, they had … she had a lot of sons. And I can remember as a young child it seemed every year one of them would die. Yeah. And all nice young men. And in those days, you didn't go to an undertaker. They were in the house. The body was in the living room, and all the flowers would be in there.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: And my mother used to be called over to help Mrs. Marin. Because when they got back from the cemetery, they had a ball. My mother would be in the kitchen cooking a turkey or a ham…

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: …and making the salad or whatever. And they'd come back from the cemetery, and she'd invite the priest in and everything. And they'd have this terrific dining table and have a good time … I used to love that because Mrs. Marin would give us any of the food that was left.

JUDITH: Mm-hmm.

CORA: And we’d walk in the back, through her stable to our alley. And there was our house.

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: And then sometimes she’s give my mother a dozen eggs or a pound of butter. Oh, they were awfully good to us. She was awfully good to us.

JUDITH: When you say stable, they had a carriage? They had horses, or rather a wagon? They probably had a wagon.

CORA: Yeah, they had a wagon. They delivered in a wagon.

JUDITH: They had a delivery wagon, so they had delivery horses.

CORA: I can remember my father on a Sunday would throw us kids in his delivery wagon and they’d go up Sutter Street to Presidio Avenue. And there was a cemetery up there, you know. The bodies were all taken out and moved someplace else and now were made into homes. But I can remember going up the hill to Presidio Avenue, and then we’d go over to California Street where they had a great big barn, where the train used to come in. Did you know there was a train?

JUDITH: No. Tell us about the train.

CORA: The train ended there in this great big house. And my mother and father would get that train, and we’d go way out to the Cliff House… [Transcriber’s note: The Cliff House is located on the headland just north of Ocean Beach. For most of the Cliff House's history, since 1863, the building's main draw has been restaurants and bars where patrons could enjoy Pacific Ocean views.]

JUDITH: Oh, right!

CORA: …over the top of the hill. Yeah, I bet you if you look up the history of … San Francisco you’ll read about that.

JUDITH: And so it went from Presidio to Cliff House?

CORA: [00:45:11] Do you remember Sutro Baths that was out there?

JUDITH: I'd love for you to tell me about that.

CORA: Oh, boy.

JUDITH: Did you swim there?

CORA: Yeah. A bunch of us from the office used to go out and swim on Saturdays. Just wonderful. But imagine it went all along the top. And you’d look down, you’d see all the beaches way down there. A lot of people don't know there was a train. I wish I had a picture of it.

JUDITH: Yeah, maybe there is one somewhere. I’ll look in my books. Tell me something about Sutro Baths. I've always been fascinated by it. There were many pools? [Transcriber’s notes: The Sutro Baths was a large, privately owned public saltwater swimming pool complex in the Lands End area of the Outer Richmond District, north of Ocean Beach and the Cliff House. Built by entrepreneur and former mayor Adolph Sutro, Sutro Baths opened to the public in 1886 as the world's largest indoor swimming pool establishment and included six saltwater pools and one freshwater pool. The structure burned to its concrete foundation in 1966. Per Wikipedia, the baths were once served by two rail lines. The Ferries and Cliff House Railroad ran from the baths to a terminal at California and Presidio Avenue. The second line was the Sutro Railroad, which ran electric trolleys to Golden Gate Park and downtown San Francisco.]

CORA: Yes. One real ice cold. And we always went in this, we called it the soup, that was the last one, the big one. But that was a little bit warm. But the ice cold one, lots of times the guys say “I’m going up in the cold one.” I don’t see how they stood it. It was like ice water.

JUDITH: Because it was seawater that was pumped in, wasn't it?

CORA: Yeah, sure.

JUDITH: And so you would put on … did you change your suits in a ladies room?

CORA: Oh, we had little rooms given to us. Oh, yeah.

JUDITH: Did you have your own bathing suits or would you get one at the pool?

CORA: Oh, I had my own.

JUDITH: Right.

CORA: And then do you remember Lurline Baths? [Transcriber’s note: Per Wikipedia, the Lurline Baths were public salt water baths built in 1894 at the corner of Bush and Larkin streets. The Lurline Baths closed in 1936.]

JUDITH: No. Tell us about that.

CORA: That used to be on Bush and Polk.

JUDITH: Ah-ha.

CORA: And there they had a big pool. Lurline. They had a big pool and they had a slide made out of marble.

JUDITH: Oh, my god.

CORA: Oh, we loved that one.

JUDITH: Now, would you spend a nickel to go in these places or what?

CORA: Or a quarter. About a quarter.

JUDITH: Did you also swim at the wonderful pool out on the waterfront? The other one, not Sutro, but the other one?

CORA: Fleishhacker? [Transcriber’s notes: Per Wikipedia, Fleishhacker Pool was a public saltwater swimming pool complex, located in the southwest corner of San Francisco, next to the zoo at Sloat Boulevard and the Great Highway. Upon its completion in 1925, it was one of the largest outdoor swimming pools in the world. It remained open for more than four decades until its closure in 1971. The Fleishhacker Pool and the Fleishhacker Playfield complex was built by businessman, philanthropist and civic leader Herbert Fleishhacker. Herbert was the son of paper entrepreneur Aaron Fleishhacker.]

JUDITH: Fleishhacker.

CORA: Too damn cold out there.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: The weather was bad, you know. No, I never did go in that one, but I was always in one down on...

JUDITH: Lurline Bath?

CORA: Yeah. I loved that one because the slide was marvelous.

JUDITH: Well, now at Sutro did they have…? It looks as though they had diving boards and…

CORA: Oh, yeah, they had a big long…

JUDITH: …even canoes.

CORA: …the length of the whole building was one big long … And they also had those rings that you hang on.

JUDITH: Oh, right.

CORA: Go from one ring to the other. And if you fell, you went right in the water.

JUDITH: Just drop in the water. Well, were the women segregated for men or did you mix when you swam?

CORA: [00:47:25] No, mixed. I went one time, I'll never forget this, I went one time with a bunch from the office. And we were in the soup one we called it, which was … just warm water. And we were in there and I says “Come on, Mack, let’s swim out to the deep end of the pool.” Because they're all in squares. So we started swimming out, I think we were talking to one another. And I didn’t notice it, but he had a plate. And the minute we got to the deep water, he climbed up the ladder and went out. And I wondered “where is he going?” The next day he said … I said “Where did you go, Mack?” He said “Didn't you see my teeth fall out?” His teeth fell out while we went swimming. [laughter] And I said “Why didn't you stay? They might have found ‘em for you at the bottom of the pool.” But he was embarrassed. So he came to work about two days later. [chuckles]

JUDITH: His front tooth plate, he’d lost it in the Sutro…?

CORA: Not one, but the whole thing.

JUDITH: His whole front teeth. Oh, my lord.

CORA: The plate, the whole thing.

JUDITH: He lost it swimming? Not jumping off the diving board?

CORA: No, we were talking, you know, and out came this white thing. And I didn't pay any attention. [chuckles]

JUDITH: That's wonderful.

CORA: I think of that all the time.

JUDITH: [00:48:45] Yeah. How would you get out there then? By the train? You rode the train out to the Sutro Baths?

CORA: Oh no … there’s a streetcar.

JUDITH: OK.

CORA: It was a streetcar. The number two still goes out there.

JUDITH: Uh-huh. What were some of the other highlights of your youth that you remember in San Francisco?

CORA: You know, out at the end there, across from Sutro Baths … there was a park. I’ve forgotten what it was called…

JUDITH: I think it’s Sutro Park. Where his house was.

CORA: Could be.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: And people used to go up there to spend the day.

JUDITH: Yes.

CORA: [00:49:21] And my mother would make a lunch and we would go out there. It was like a park.

JUDITH: Have a picnic in the park.

CORA: That's right.

JUDITH: And spend the day. And didn't they have a lot of statuary there?

CORA: Yes. I’ll bet it’s still there.

JUDITH: It is, I believe, yes … You ought to have your daughter take you out there because it's still there. [Transcriber’s note: Sutro Heights Park is a public park in the Outer Richmond District, located above the Cliff House in the Lands End area. In the early 1880s, Adolph Sutro built a mansion in this area, surrounded by expansive gardens which he opened to the public. Per Wikipedia, Sutro imported more than 200 concrete replicas of Greek and Roman statuary from Belgium, to provide examples of European culture to visitors. Some of these statues are still present in the park.]

CORA: Is it really? I bet it is.

JUDITH: Yeah, I've been meaning to have a little tour of it myself.

CORA: I wished I had a picture of Sutro Baths.

JUDITH: Oh, I bet you do

CORA: My son-in-law may have all that stuff. He's a nut on all this.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: He can tell you when they left Italy. Oh, he's got all the history down.

JUDITH: You don't remember when your parents left Italy?

CORA: No.

JUDITH: Were Woodward Gardens open when you were young? [Transcriber’s note: Per Wikipedia, Woodward's Gardens was a combination amusement park, museum, art gallery, zoo, and aquarium operating from 1866 to 1891 in the Mission District. The Gardens covered two city blocks, bounded by Mission and Valencia streets, and 13th and 15th Streets.]

CORA: Oh, sure.

JUDITH: The Woodward Gardens?

CORA: That’s the one up on the Hill?

JUDITH: No, that was one out … in the Mission somewhere, I think on Guerrero or way out. Did you ever go to Woodward Gardens?

CORA: Never.

JUDITH: OK. So most of your life centered around the western end of town. But did you go down to North Beach sometimes to visit friends and relatives?

CORA: Well, my uncle and his wife lived there. My cousins.

JUDITH: OK.

CORA: He had his fruit store, and the church was there. You walk up the hill, DuPont. And they lived at the top of the hill by Lombard.

JUDITH: Ah-ha.

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: I live on Lombard, right below there.

CORA: Well, there you go.

JUDITH: And did everyone speak Italian in the family gatherings?

CORA: Only.

JUDITH: So these were your father's brothers who had the store on…?

CORA: [00:51:00] Yes. They were three brothers, and each one had a fruit store. One had the one on Fillmore, where my father. And his other brother had one on Pacific and Leavenworth. And the other one was over in North Beach, right near that street up from the church.

JUDITH: Right, OK. So you were all grocers. Have had your grandparents been merchants or grocers in Lucca, do you remember?

CORA: No, not at all.

JUDITH: Did they ever talk about why your mother and dad came to America?

CORA: No.

JUDITH: OK. But they were happy to be here and embraced America?

CORA: Oh, sure. And the minute they got here, see everybody that came here had somebody they knew South of Market. And that's where my mother landed. I don't know how she ever found a job.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: The first thing you know, maybe the newspaper. She found that job taking care of that little girl.

JUDITH: Right. But all her friends lived South of Market in those days?

CORA: South of Market, yeah. That was quite an Italian settlement.

JUDITH: Right.

CORA: A lot of ‘em down there.

JUDITH: Were your family active in local politics or party … Democratic or Republican Party?

CORA: No.

JUDITH: OK.

CORA: My brothers either.

JUDITH: OK. So you were largely business people and family-oriented?

CORA: Absolutely.

JUDITH: [00:52:27] OK. Do you remember anything else about the earthquake? How … you had enough food to eat, I guess, because people brought you food. But you cooked out on an open grill or something?

CORA: Oh, yeah. You couldn't … you had to put your stove out on the sidewalk.

JUDITH: Right.

CORA: And all the stoves were out on the edge of the sidewalk. Oh, yeah, you couldn't cook in the house.

JUDITH: Well, when did you move out of the tent? Did you get to go back to your home, your house? Were you able…?

CORA: We left the house and moved in that alley.

JUDITH: Oh, right. You had to move around the corner to the alley.

CORA: Yeah, we went down in there. And, you know, that was I told you, across the street, the McNamaras?

JUDITH: Right.

CORA: He got all his friends, and they … whatever they did, they hid my father's barrels of liquor.

JUDITH: The cops?

CORA: So when the Army came in with the bayonets, believe me, they meant business. You couldn't have liquor. Not only that, but they would have gone in the back and slashed the thing open to let the liquor flow out … But they hid them. I don’t know, but they must have found a lot of empty boxes and hid them.

JUDITH: Wow. Barrels of wine?

CORA: [00:53:40] Yeah. You know, barrels with a spigot on it. And then when my mother got back to the store, she made a fortune selling that stuff.

JUDITH: Wow. Good idea.

CORA: See?

JUDITH: Sure.

CORA: Due to Mr. McNamara.

JUDITH: And he was a policeman?

CORA: He’s a policeman. And his beat was Chinatown. So one day he took my two brothers with their coaster. You know, a big long hunk of wood with a wheel here and a wheel here in the back. And they had a box nailed in the middle.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: And they walked to Chinatown from Fillmore, and he took them into some of the Chinese stores that were burned out. And they came back with that box loaded with souvenirs. And it's a shame I didn't grab something like two spoons. You know how the Chinese used a spoon made out of crockery. There'd be two of those burned together. A cup and saucer burned together. And my brothers put a couple of tables or something out in front of my father's store and sold ‘em as souvenirs.

JUDITH: Wow. So everybody was very enterprising?

CORA: Yeah. And my mother made money on that, too.

JUDITH: Ah-ha. So you got the store going again, and your mother kept an interest in the store?

CORA: Yeah, but you see she couldn't get the man that worked for my father. He didn't want the responsibility of getting up in the mornings and going to the market, so he wouldn't stay. So my mother had to sell out. That's how we got to move to the alley.

JUDITH: Ah.

CORA: So she had to go out and work.

JUDITH: So you didn't have the store for income after your father was lost? Oh, dear.

CORA: [00:55:19] No. My mother's income, she made 25 cents an hour, imagine.

JUDITH: But you all worked yourselves and had jobs?

CORA: No, I stayed home. I used to come in after school and put the soup on and make the beds. My mother always had a roomer. I'd have to make his room up. And she always had my cousin stay with us. And she collected from him. Room and board, you know.

JUDITH: That’s hard.

CORA: That's the only way she, uh...

JUDITH: …the only income she had?

CORA: [00:56:00] Yeah. We had a paper around here someplace. I was looking at it the other day. Said something about when my father came and when my mother came. You know, when you want something you can never find it…

[Transcriber’s note: second audiotape begins here]

CORA: [00:00:00] I didn't print it. Somebody else did.

JUDITH: Oh, Rafaello Paolinelli. probably came from Ponte a Moriano.

CORA: That’s it.

JUDITH: Born in 1860. Ah, yes. This has all the facts on it. [Transcriber’s note: Judith is apparently reading a document here with historical information about Cora’s family.]

CORA: Good.

JUDITH: Uh, Raphaelo is spelled R-A-P-H-A-E-L-O, like the painter. [Transcriber’s note: the document Judith is reading spells the name of Cora’s father differently than Cora spelled it earlier in this transcript.]

CORA: No, she wrote...

JUDITH: Raphaelo. And, uh, Ponte a Moriano.

CORA: Ponte a Moriano, yep. It’s still there. It’s only about six or seven miles from Lucca.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: And Lucca is quite a city.

JUDITH: And you … went back to Italy quite a bit you said?

CORA: Oh, I’ve been 29 times.

JUDITH: Really?

CORA: And I’m ready to go again.

JUDITH: You like Italy?

CORA: I stay in Lucca, there’s a nice hotel. They call it Universo.

JUDITH: Mm-hmm.

CORA: Right next door there’s the best restaurant you ever ate in.

JUDITH: So you remember it well?

CORA: I sure do.

JUDITH: [00:01:06] So your father came to the United States in 1875? [Transcriber’s note: it appears that Judith and Cora are looking at documents and photos here]

CORA: There you go.

JUDITH: And, uh, became a citizen on July 24th, 1888.

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: And your mother Ermida came to the United States in 1890.

CORA: Oh, will you top that.

JUDITH: OK. And, uh, let's see … in 1884 lived at the Barsalieri Society at 635 Broadway. [Transcriber’s note: correct spelling of this society’s name is unknown.]

CORA: See that's … that’s like a lodge.

JUDITH: Oh, that would have been an Italian society, yeah.

CORA: Yeah, that's right.

JUDITH: OK. And in 1891, I guess your father had his store at 1934-36 Fillmore.

CORA: Yeah, that's right.

JUDITH: Alright. Um, and in 1893 it was at 1936 Fillmore until 1895. And then in 1900, under the census, it says you lived at 2234 Bush Street.

CORA: Oh, is that the number on there?

JUDITH: Yeah. 2234 Bush Street.

CORA: Uh-huh.

JUDITH: And, uh, in 1903 your store was at 1934 Fillmore, and your residence was also … was then at 2254 Bush. Is that right? OK … well, that's very helpful. OK. And your father was born August 14th … Oh, no, he was married. That was it. Your father was born in 1860. And … your mother and father were married on August 14, 1892, at Peter and Paul, it says here. Sts. Peter and Paul.

CORA: Is that one over at the Beach?

JUDITH: [00:03:08] Yeah, mm-hmm. In North Beach. Alright. And your mother Ermida came to the U.S. in 1890. So she must have been quite a bit younger than your father.

CORA: Ten years.

JUDITH: Mm-hmm.

CORA: Ten years younger she was.

JUDITH: She was 10 years younger than your father, OK.

CORA: Now if you can make believe: this big, tall man is the one whose teeth went down. A big, tall guy in the end. That's Mr. McAnalen. [Transcriber’s note: the correct spelling of McAnalen is unknown.]

JUDITH: How do you spell that?

CORA: M-C-A-N-A-L-E-N, I think. McAnalen

JUDITH: And … who are these other men? The four men in the picture?

CORA: They all worked in the office.

JUDITH: Oh, I see. Your friends where you…?

CORA: Yeah, they were all on a hike.

JUDITH: Ah-ha.

CORA: But he's in that one. And the boy that just died a week ago is standing up there.

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: Isn’t that something. After all these years.

JUDITH: [00:04:19] These were coworkers of yours?

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: I'll be darned.

CORA: On this picture, I wrote “The good ol’ group from the Northern.” The Northern Insurance. That was an English insurance company. And see they were on a hike.

JUDITH: Did you go on hikes like that for recreation?

CORA: I don't like to hike. No, I never did. I’d go swimming, but no hikes.

JUDITH: [laughter] Here is your picture and this information back, Mrs. Luchetti. That's very helpful. Yes, it's good that you have that.

CORA: Did you read some of this stuff?

JUDITH: [00:05:20] I did. Yeah, I read it all and took note of it.

CORA: See, my son-in-law did that.

JUDITH: [00:05:23] What are your two daughters’ names?

CORA: Well, Barbara, the one that I was with today, she married a Bosque. Paul Bosque was a teacher.

JUDITH: What's her name?

CORA: His name?

JUDITH: Her name. The daughters.

CORA: Barbara.

JUDITH: Barbara, OK.

CORA: She's married to Paul Bosque. B-O-S-Q-U-E. And he was a teacher for years at Redwood.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: Redwood High. And Beverly was a nurse in St. Mary's Hospital for 26 years.

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: And she married … to a judge.

JUDITH: Really?

CORA: Joseph Desmond.

JUDITH: Uh-huh. Are they … is she still alive, too?

CORA: Oh, yeah.

JUDITH: OK.

CORA: And I have a grandson that's in Ireland. And he met a little Irish gal. And they’re getting married on the 15th. So my whole family's on their way there right now. The one from the city is on the plane.

JUDITH: I’ll be darned. So you’ll have Irish and Italian…?

CORA: That's right.

JUDITH: …together. [chuckles]

CORA: Did you see anything on here? You can see better.

JUDITH: Yes, I got all that information. It's about your father.

CORA: Oh, good.

JUDITH: Rafaello P-A-O-L-I-N-E-L-L-I.

CORA: Paolinelli.

JUDITH: [00:06:52] And you think he probably came from Ponte a Moriano?

CORA: Ponte a Moriano, yeah.

JUDITH: Is there one for your mother there? A card for your mom?

CORA: No.

JUDITH: OK. Well, that's important. You better keep that where you can always get to it … Well, after you married, then you lived 26 years out at 39th Avenue.

CORA: That’s right.

JUDITH: But it was after that you moved to Santa Rosa then?

CORA: Yes.

JUDITH: When did you lose your husband?

CORA: ‘84.

JUDITH: Oh, not too...?

CORA: 1984. I was here in the park. [Transcriber’s note: Cora lived her late years at a trailer park in Novato designed for older adults.]

JUDITH: Not too long ago then?

CORA: No.

JUDITH: OK. Do you remember any other things about the earthquake? Uh, I mean, you must have stayed in that tent for quite a while. What…?

CORA: [00:07:39] We stayed down the Presidio.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: Yeah, we stayed there about two weeks before we could go back to our house. And then when we got back, we had to cook on the sidewalk.

JUDITH: Yeah. And were you able to go in and sleep in the house?

CORA: Oh, yes. Oh, sure.

JUDITH: [00:07:57] OK. But everyone was out … did everybody move some kind of stoves out onto the sidewalk, so everybody's up and down the street?

CORA: Absolutely. [unintelligible words here] And then when you got back in the house, believe me they’d come and check everything.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: To see if everything's all right.

JUDITH: See if your chimney had been rebuilt and...

CORA: That’s right.

JUDITH: Uh-huh, OK. But your house survived, but you all had to move?

CORA: We all had to move.

JUDITH: OK. Was it a time of great sadness? Did you … ‘cause you’d lost your father?

CORA: Oh, yeah. My mother must have been... oh, she must have been…

JUDITH: Tragic. She had four little children?

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: Oh, my goodness.

CORA: [00:08:40] And see, I was six and the ball player was five years older. He would have been 11. And the other one was 13. And my mother had to pull ‘em out of school. And they both … got jobs.

JUDITH: Wow. They did? They left school? So there were four. You were six. And one was 11, and one was 13. And both those boys, she had to…?

CORA: They had to have jobs.

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: One of them got a job with the … in the same market where his father used to work. [chuckles]

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: Foxhall Market. Just to get off and on the wagon when they delivered the food, and went in the house with the order.

JUDITH: Mm-hmm.

CORA: And the other one found a job … there used to be a huge like a dry goods store, like an Emporium. Weinstock Lubin, on the corner of Post and Fillmore. And the other boy got a job there. [Transcriber’s notes: Per Wikipedia, The Emporium was a mid-line department store chain headquartered in San Francisco which operated from 1896 to 1996. The flagship location on San Francisco's Market Street was a destination shopping location for decades, and several branch stores operated in various Bay Area suburbs.; Weinstock's, originally Weinstock, Lubin, and Co., was an American department store chain headquartered in Sacramento. It was founded by Harris Weinstock and David Lubin, and the chain was purchased by Hale’s in 1949.]

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: Don't worry, they found jobs.

JUDITH: But they never went back to high school or...?

CORA: No.

JUDITH: Wow. And what did they go on…? Well, one of them became the ballplayer. And what did the other boy do?

CORA: Well, he's … he went to work for the Standard Oil Company. He worked for them for years.

JUDITH: OK.

CORA: But the ballplayer, he … we only saw him when he’d come here, you know, at different times.

JUDITH: Mm-hmm. And then what did your youngest brother do?

CORA: He opened the flower shop on Clement.

JUDITH: Oh, right, right.

CORA: Pinelli’s Flowerland. And the sign is still out in front. [Transcriber’s note: Pinelli’s Flowerland remains open as a flower shop at 714 Clement Street. The shop was founded by Cora’s youngest brother Fiori (short for Fiorivante).]

JUDITH: Really?

CORA: Yep. Pinelli’s Flowerland.

JUDITH: Where on Clement about, do you know?

CORA: Yeah, between Eighth and Ninth. Across the street from the show.

JUDITH: Right, OK.

CORA: The Coliseum.

JUDITH: [00:10:32] Alright. So everyone did very well for themselves. And your mother must have been proud.

CORA: Yes, she was.

JUDITH: Do you remember when you lost her?

CORA: What year?

JUDITH: Or yeah … you said you thought she died in 1989. [Transcriber’s note: as noted previously, Cora’s mother actually died in 1955.]

CORA: That could be right.

JUDITH: She outlasted your husband? She lived longer than your husband? Well, anyway.

CORA: Oh, yes.

JUDITH: Your mother did?

CORA: Sure. Because he used to come with that coffee cake ... she was alive.

JUDITH: Well, you've had a full and interesting life, and you keep it that way I see.

CORA: Well, I keep going.

JUDITH: You certainly do. And you're...

CORA: Now, today I went to the Marin Foundation.

JUDITH: And were awarded five hundred dollars for...

CORA: I got five hundred dollars…

JUDITH: Wonderful.

CORA: So I was … I bought a shawl. Because they wanted shawls last Christmas. And one of my ladies made about 50 of them. So I gave them 30. And she came and I put ‘em in a great big bag. So one lady took one today. She wants to take it home, count stitches. So she's going to make some. So I said to my daughter “Do you know who it is?” She said “Don't worry, I got her name, Mom.” [chuckles]

JUDITH: Well, you must be very skilled at your needlework? [chuckles]

CORA: I’m skilled at getting the women together.

JUDITH: Yes. And organizing as you say.

CORA: And organizing.

JUDITH: [laughter] Well, I really appreciate your taking the time to talk to me. It's been very interesting. And I've learned a lot. And I'm most grateful for you.

CORA: [00:12:24] You know, when I lived on Fillmore Street those were the days when at each corner they had arches of metal coming across from the four corners to the middle … of the... and where we lived the street kind of started to go up a little bit Fillmore. And you could stay up at the corner of Pine and look down and see all these arches.

JUDITH: How wonderful!

CORA: Yeah, it was a beautiful sight.

JUDITH: I never knew that.

CORA: And then there was one time, I don't know what year it was, but they used to have like a Portola Festival they called it. And the man would come riding up on a horse [chuckles] in the middle of the street, dressed up kind of like a Spaniard. Yeah, Portola Festival.

JUDITH: Up Fillmore, under the arches?

CORA: [00:13:20] Mm-hmm. I often wondered why they took the arches down. Someone told me the other day they took them down, they needed that metal for the war.

JUDITH: Oh. For World War Two or World War One?

CORA: Two.

JUDITH: OK.

CORA: Maybe One, I don't know, but I have a friend that's … he's the head of the San Francisco Historical Society. And I want to join it because…

JUDITH: Charles Fracchia? [Transcriber’s note: Charles Fracchia founded the San Francisco Historical Society in 1988. He died in 2021.]

CORA: No. Ron Ross. [Transcriber’s note: Ron Ross founded the San Francisco History Association in 1982. He died in 2022.]

JUDITH: Ron Ross, yes. I spoke with him. I spoke to that organization.

CORA: Oh, did you? Good for you.

JUDITH: And I do know them. Yes.

CORA: Well, Ron and I have been friends for years.

JUDITH: Oh, wonderful.

CORA: Yeah. So the other day I get this paper and … their first speaker that they’re going to have about a month from now … and I think my son-in-law wants to join. He loves to hear all that stuff. So if he does, I'll go with him. ‘Cause they meet at the Cannery. But that’s way upstairs. Like how am I going to get up there? [Transcriber’s note: Located at the corner of Leavenworth and Beach streets, the Cannery was built after the 1906 earthquake as a plant for the California Fruit Canners Association. The Cannery ceased production in 1937 and the brick-walled structure now serves as a shopping center.]

JUDITH: Oh, they have an elevator there.

CORA: They have an elevator.

JUDITH: Oh, so they're meeting at the Cannery now?

CORA: Yes.

JUDITH: Alright. They were meeting at the Unitarian Church when I talked to them.

CORA: Where was that?

JUDITH: Over on … where Geary crosses Franklin.

CORA: Oh, down in there.

JUDITH: But the Cannery has a good elevator that you can ride.

CORA: Oh, sure.

JUDITH: Probably at the San Francisco Museum.

CORA: He wants to join. But I'll bet a dollar they don't know about the train.

JUDITH: No. Or those arches. That's the first I ever heard of that.

CORA: Oh, yeah. I wished we had pictures of that. It was a sight.

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: How colorful…

CORA: And they went all the way from Golden Gate I guess was the last street down, all the way up to about Broadway.

JUDITH: Really?

CORA: [00:15:15] All the way up Fillmore.

JUDITH: Blocks and blocks.

CORA: [unintelligible words here] It was just gorgeous. They'd light them up at nights, you know.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: Oh, yeah.

JUDITH: So they had lights on them, and then they'd be decorated for parades with garlands of flowers…?

CORA: No, no. Just the lights.

JUDITH: OK. Well, that’s…

CORA: You know, that historical society might even have some pictures of these things.

JUDITH: Yes, uh-huh.

CORA: I’ll bet not too many people don't know about the train.

JUDITH: Or the library. No. What … when do you think the train stopped running out to Cliff House?

CORA: Well, you see they wanted … to make that land … it was a cemetery into homes.

JUDITH: Right. On California Street?

CORA: On Presidio Avenue.

JUDITH: Laurel. Where Laurel … the Laurel Cemetery was.

CORA: Yes. It was all cemetery there. And, you know, there was quite an Italian settlement up around where … the Senate Hospital is now. What’s that called, that hospital there? [Transcriber’s note: it’s unclear which hospital Cora is referring to here.]

JUDITH: Where…?

CORA: Oh, Kaiser. Kaiser.

JUDITH: Oh, where Kaiser is on California?

CORA: [00:16:26] No, it was out on Geary. On the corner of Geary and Presidio Avenue. Quite a settlement of Italian people. [Transcriber’s note: Kaiser Permanente operates a hospital and several medical office buildings on Geary Boulevard between Divisadero Street and Presidio Avenue.]

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: And I can remember my mother and father going out there on Sundays, and they loved … my father loved to play bocce ball. And they had a nice place out there. And as kids, they’re all Italian families, so all us kids used to play together while the men were having a ball playing bocce ball.

JUDITH: Oh, that's wonderful. So there was a park kind of thing there?

CORA: A settlement. I'd say Presidio Avenue, maybe out to First Avenue, right at the top of the hill.

JUDITH: I’ll be darned. Yeah, right. Well, actually there was a Sears there for many years there at that intersection of Geary and…

CORA: A what?

JUDITH: Sears Roebuck was at Geary and Presidio.

CORA: Yes, you're right. Sears was there.

JUDITH: So it was … Sears was where they used to play and have bocce ball?

CORA: It was further out a little bit. I'd say First Avenue in.

JUDITH: [00:17:22] Yeah. Well, I didn't know there was such an Italian community there. One thinks of it being…

CORA: We used to love to go there because they’d all get together and the men would be out there bocce balling away.

JUDITH: Right. How marvelous. Well, if you have any photographs from those days, that would be very interesting to historians.

CORA: God, I could get. It seems to me I saw a photograph recently. Maybe my son-in-law has something about Sutro Baths.

JUDITH: Oh, good.

CORA: Show you all the pools, the different...

JUDITH: Right. Well, there are photos of that.

CORA: [00:17:58] You bought your tickets way upstairs. There were millions of stairs to go down. And as you went down, it was sometimes like a museum. They'd have little things to look at. And then you get down with a pools were. Then you had your rooms down there.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: And then to get out you had to walk up all them damn stairs again to get up to the top.

JUDITH: That's right. So you entered at the top?

CORA: And went down.

JUDITH: And went down to the pools?

CORA: That’s right.

JUDITH: Which were more at sea level?

CORA: That's right.

JUDITH: And what kinds of things were in the museum? Do you remember?

CORA: Oh, those stuffed animals.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: Bears and things.

JUDITH: Right.

CORA: Oh, we used to love that.

JUDITH: So your entry for a quarter got you into everything?

CORA: Yep.

JUDITH: OK.

CORA: [00:18:53] But you know, when you stop to figure it out, the earthquake and fire ruined everything from Van Ness down. So Fillmore Street got to be the big street then. Polk Street was gone. Everything on Polk Street was burned. And it's a good thing they dynamited some of the buildings on Van Ness. If they hadn’t done that, the fire might have crossed over. And we were only seven blocks from Van Ness. We’d of lost our home.

JUDITH: Right. And good heavens knows what all else.

CORA: See what I mean.

JUDITH: Yeah.

CORA: But it didn't go over. We were lucky.

JUDITH: Uh-huh. So you think they made the right decision in their doing that?

CORA: They sure did. Blowing up some of those buildings.

JUDITH: Did you know any other people … how other people were affected by the earthquake? … Did … you have friends who lost houses…?

CORA: No. Nobody did that I know about.

JUDITH: …out in your neighborhood?

CORA: See they didn’t live out that way. The Western Addition, where we lived, was mostly Irish and … North Beach.

JUDITH: Well, you had your own terrible loss.

CORA: Yeah. And you know that McNamaras she never had children. So she took a liking to me. So, you know, Easter was like coming up on a Sunday. And the Sunday before that was Palm Sunday. And she took me to her dressmaker and had this dressmaker make me a dotted Swiss white dress. Do you remember that material?

JUDITH: Sure do.

CORA: And she … I have a picture someplace. And it is darling. She even bought me a doll, with the blond hair, and had the dressmaker make me a little blue dress for the doll.

JUDITH: Oh.

CORA: And then she … was so thrilled. And she took me downtown and bought me a hat at the Emporium...

JUDITH: Ah.

CORA: …Milan straw. And I can remember it went up like this. And under here, it had forget-me-nots and baby roses.

JUDITH: Ah.

CORA: And it was darling.

JUDITH: With a turned-up brim.

CORA: And in this house is a picture of me with that. I don't know where it is.

JUDITH: It had forget-me-nots and roses?

CORA: Yeah. Baby roses. It was so pretty. And then she bought me a pair of shoes. In those days we had straps, you know?

JUDITH: Right. Mary Janes.

CORA: That’s one strap. But this was a real high one with buttons.

JUDITH: Oh, high-button shoes?

CORA: Yeah, but not closed in. There were straps across.

JUDITH: Oh.

CORA: I'll never forget.

JUDITH: For spring and summer?

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: This was your beautiful Easter outfit?

CORA: [00:21:36] She had me all dolled up. And she brought me down to the store. She dressed me all up and took me into the store for my father to see me. And he couldn't get over how nice I looked. I was his pride and joy anyway.

JUDITH: Oh.

CORA: He always wanted a girl.

JUDITH: Yes. So that was … would have been when you were about four years old maybe?

CORA: No, six. 1906.

JUDITH: Oh, just before the earthquake.

CORA: Yeah. And he took he took me in and he couldn't get over how nice I looked. And that was on like Sunday, Palm Sunday. And Wednesday was the earthquake. And that’s when everybody … that ended everything.

JUDITH: Ah!

CORA: Yeah, it was on a Wednesday.

JUDITH: You have a remarkably good memory. You mentioned a certain kind of straw. Milan?

CORA: Milan. M-I-L-A-N.

JUDITH: OK.

CORA: Oh, it was beautiful. Nice soft straw.

JUDITH: At the Emporium?

CORA: At the Emporium. It was still there.

JUDITH: I’ll be darned. Well, that would be a wonderful picture to have, yes.

CORA: If I could only find that one … I think I have a picture of my brother and I when we were little.

JUDITH: Your youngest brother, OK?

CORA: I’ve been keeping you here all…

[Transcriber’s note: there is a break in the recording here]

JUDITH: [00:22:55] L-U-C-H-E-T-T-I is Toscano?

CORA: …with two c’s. There’s a lot of ‘em in Oakland. With two c’s.

JUDITH: With two c’s it’s Genovese.

CORA: [chuckles]

JUDITH: Very big difference.

CORA: It’s a different part of Italy, I’d say.

JUDITH: Yes, an entirely different part of Italy. Alright. That's fascinating.

[Transcriber’s note: there is a break in the recording here]

CORA: … go “why didn’t you stay?” And when they cleaned the pool there must be a drain or something where the water goes out. I'll bet a dollar he would’ve found ‘em.”

JUDITH: [chuckles] ‘Cause it wasn't cheap to get new dental plates.

CORA: I know. The whole thing.

JUDITH: That's wonderful.

CORA: And he was a young man. He was only about 22.

JUDITH: He must have been hit in the mouth or something...

CORA: I guess.

JUDITH: Probably was hit with a ball or something. Well, happy birthday next week.

CORA: Thank you, Judy.

JUDITH: I wish you the very best regards, and I’ll look forward to seeing you again.

[Transcriber’s note: there is a break in the recording here]

JUDITH: Yeah.

CORA: [00:23:51] Yeah. Well, I went down. I went down and, uh... [Transcriber’s note: Cora is referring here to the annual 1906 San Francisco Earthquake and Fire Anniversary ceremony event held at Lotta’s Fountain on the morning of April 18. Survivors like Cora were often celebrated by media covering the event, especially as the years wore on and the number of living survivors dwindled. Lotta’s Fountain is located at the intersection of Market, Geary and Kearny streets.]

JUDITH: Did you go this year?

CORA: Ten years. I was on TV all the time.

JUDITH: Oh, good for you … Well, I think I did see you this year then, because I do watch.

CORA: And the funny part of it is I thought I would write to Willie Brown, the mayor.

JUDITH: Yes.

CORA: And I wrote to him and said “I'll be there at five o’clock. With some of the survivors.”

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: “And so we'd love to have you join us.” By golly if he didn't come.

JUDITH: I'm not surprised. He's … full of vim and vigor, isn't he? So every year for many years you've gone there to the earthquake…?

CORA: Every year. Every year.

JUDITH: Wow.

CORA: [00:24:33] So everybody in the park, they all see me. “Oh, I saw you last night. Oh, I saw you last night.”

JUDITH: Uh-huh. That's interesting.

CORA: Yeah.

JUDITH: To remember the earthquake. Five what time was it in the morning?

CORA: Five thirteen.

JUDITH: Gosh.

CORA: And, you know, in the olden days we’d be there. And someone would start off counting.

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: Like … when you get to five, you start in 13, 12, 10, they go all the way up. And when we got to one it was 5:13 and all the streetcars … and the cars driving by would honk their horn. And the church on Mission Street, whatever one it is, would start ringing the bells…

JUDITH: St. Patrick's. [Transcriber’s note: Founded in 1851, St. Patrick's Catholic Church is located at 756 Mission Street, between 3rd and 4th streets, across the street from Yerba Buena Gardens.]

CORA: St. Patrick’s. And there’d be so much confusion. It was just wonderful.

JUDITH: Yeah, that's what he said…

CORA: You know, one year they had the fire engineer that fought some of the fire.

JUDITH: Wow. Oh, my gosh.

CORA: Yeah. And I have a picture of my grandchildren standing by.

JUDITH: Oh, my gosh, yeah. Well, our firemen are still, uh, wonderful. They...

CORA: They still go down there?

JUDITH: Oh, yes. My boyfriend would go every year. And he wanted me to go this year, but I lost him last year, so I...

CORA: You didn't go?

JUDITH: No, I didn’t go. Maybe next year I'll go. I’ll come and see you there.

CORA: I'll be there.

JUDITH: I'm sure you will.

CORA: I go stay with my daughter...

JUDITH: Uh-huh.

CORA: …and sleep there. And then we get up at four in the morning and go right down Market Street.

JUDITH: Wonderful. Well, I'm going to make a point of it. I was too sad this year to … because I was remembering … but next year I'll feel better about it. I'll go for him and you.

CORA: You come and see me.

JUDITH: [00:26:14] I will. [chuckles] … That concludes Cora Luchetti on June 5th, 1996.

[END OF INTERVIEW]